I own a Harmony 890 (~$220 when I bought it if I remember right), and it is a trainwreck. What's so sad is that the remote itself is nice hardware. Tons of potential anyway.
First, there's a design flaw with the older cradles that prevented a reliable recharge connection. I have to place a small weight on top of my remote to force the connection. Logitech offers a free replacement, but I'd rather not wait 4-6 weeks to use a device I just spent $200+ on...
That hardware glitch is acceptable to me. However, their software isn't, and it sounds like Denon may be shooting themselves in the foot with the same approach: web-based programmer. Logitech offers NO way to directly program the remote with raw codes or even customize it to your liking. Instead, they force you to log into their (wickedly slow and unreliable) web site and specify the specific make/model of each and every component you wish to control with your remote. [hmmm, I wonder if that user database has any value to marketers????] Then, the software TELLS YOU how the menus will be organized (alphabetically mostly). And all this only allows you to control one device at a time with the keypad without having to manually switch devices on the remote (similar to inputs on your TV menu, 3-6 keystrokes involved).
Say you have a home theater system (if you spend $200+ for a remote control, it's a safe bet you want to control more than a 19" b&w TV). Obviously you might want the 'Channel +/-' button to control your Cable/satellite while having the 'Volume +/-' control your A/V receiver without needing 4 keystrokes in between to change components on the remote. Can't do it natively with the Harmony. Instead, there's a whole other dimension of hell involved with configuring their "Activities" menu. An expert with this device starting from scratch would need 1-2 hours to set up the most obvious config: sat recvr + a/v recvr + TV.
Don't believe me? Just read the support forums at the Harmony site. I've followed it for almost 2 years, and see posts almost daily from people flat out BEGGING Logitech to offer a utility that allows raw programming and/or without requiring an active internet connection. I'm convinced their silence has more to do with the marketers subsidy (from the user db I already mentioned) than any technical limitation with the flash. In fact, someone got so frustrated about the inability to even customize the order commands are displayed on the LCD that he wrote a trivial Firefox extension that lets you change the order yourself while using Harmony's web-based programmer. For shame!
Another thing that annoys me: "customizeable slideshows" for the LCD. Buy it and then find out the remote only displays the slideshow when it's docked on the cradle - with the weight I have to place over the screen in order for the charging contacts to touch ;)
That's funny because I bought one for my parents who (especially my mother) normally have a terrible adoption rate for technology but LOVE their Harmony remote. The fact that it breaks up the remote into activities makes perfect sense to them and they use it for everything.
It would be nice if the Harmony remote was more hackable for the tech inclined but it does its job as advertised and the web based programming is a snap.
Wow, I have a Logitech Harmony 880, and I have to totally disagree with you on nearly everything you said. I love my 880 and find it very easy to use. First of all, it makes no sense to me to resign yourself to having to put a weight on top forever instead of waiting a few weeks for the replacement cradle to be shipped and then never having to worry about it again.
Secondly, the software very easily allows you to control more than one device at a time via Activities, which I actually find very useful. When you set up and activity, it prompts you whether you want the volume buttons to control the volume on the receiver or the tv, for example. If you don't like the default button choices that the programmer makes, you can go back in and manually choose which button you'd like to control which function from which device. 1-2 hours is a ridiculous exaggeration; I could probably do it from scratch in about 15-20 minutes. I currently have it set up to control cable + av receiver + tv and don't have to do any of multi-step control crap that you mention. I just push the "Watch TV" button, all the devices turn on, and all are controlled by the proper buttons on the remote. If you're having to go through the "devices" on the remote every time you want to control a different device, then you're using the remote in the wrong way; use activities to your benefit, rather than trying to fight it.
I will agree that the Slideshow feature is useless. I'll also agree that the random/alphabetical organization of the menus is annoying. Neither of those detract from the fact that it's a great remote, though.
I have a lower end Harmony (680 I think) and I agree with some of BSW's complaints, but my experience is closer to Wun Chiou's in terms of programming ease and use of activities. Controlling multiple devices at the same time with minimal button presses is easy and works well, except that there are only 6 soft-buttons and sometimes I need more.
My Harmony runs a home theatre receiver, TV, TiVo, DVD player and CD player. The activities ("Watch TV" etc) work very well most of time time. Some times a command goes astray and I need to fix it manually.
I agree with BSW's issues with the web interface limitations. Not being able to order actions the way I want is really annoying.
All in all I'm not in love with my Harmony (2 years on). I would like to try an alternative, but this Denon is way overpriced.
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Logitech's remotes looks better than this one and are a heck of a lot cheaper
I own a Harmony 890 (~$220 when I bought it if I remember right), and it is a trainwreck. What's so sad is that the remote itself is nice hardware. Tons of potential anyway.
First, there's a design flaw with the older cradles that prevented a reliable recharge connection. I have to place a small weight on top of my remote to force the connection. Logitech offers a free replacement, but I'd rather not wait 4-6 weeks to use a device I just spent $200+ on...
That hardware glitch is acceptable to me. However, their software isn't, and it sounds like Denon may be shooting themselves in the foot with the same approach: web-based programmer. Logitech offers NO way to directly program the remote with raw codes or even customize it to your liking. Instead, they force you to log into their (wickedly slow and unreliable) web site and specify the specific make/model of each and every component you wish to control with your remote. [hmmm, I wonder if that user database has any value to marketers????] Then, the software TELLS YOU how the menus will be organized (alphabetically mostly). And all this only allows you to control one device at a time with the keypad without having to manually switch devices on the remote (similar to inputs on your TV menu, 3-6 keystrokes involved).
Say you have a home theater system (if you spend $200+ for a remote control, it's a safe bet you want to control more than a 19" b&w TV). Obviously you might want the 'Channel +/-' button to control your Cable/satellite while having the 'Volume +/-' control your A/V receiver without needing 4 keystrokes in between to change components on the remote. Can't do it natively with the Harmony. Instead, there's a whole other dimension of hell involved with configuring their "Activities" menu. An expert with this device starting from scratch would need 1-2 hours to set up the most obvious config: sat recvr + a/v recvr + TV.
Don't believe me? Just read the support forums at the Harmony site. I've followed it for almost 2 years, and see posts almost daily from people flat out BEGGING Logitech to offer a utility that allows raw programming and/or without requiring an active internet connection. I'm convinced their silence has more to do with the marketers subsidy (from the user db I already mentioned) than any technical limitation with the flash. In fact, someone got so frustrated about the inability to even customize the order commands are displayed on the LCD that he wrote a trivial Firefox extension that lets you change the order yourself while using Harmony's web-based programmer. For shame!
Another thing that annoys me: "customizeable slideshows" for the LCD. Buy it and then find out the remote only displays the slideshow when it's docked on the cradle - with the weight I have to place over the screen in order for the charging contacts to touch ;)
That's funny because I bought one for my parents who (especially my mother) normally have a terrible adoption rate for technology but LOVE their Harmony remote. The fact that it breaks up the remote into activities makes perfect sense to them and they use it for everything.
It would be nice if the Harmony remote was more hackable for the tech inclined but it does its job as advertised and the web based programming is a snap.
@BSW:
Wow, I have a Logitech Harmony 880, and I have to totally disagree with you on nearly everything you said. I love my 880 and find it very easy to use. First of all, it makes no sense to me to resign yourself to having to put a weight on top forever instead of waiting a few weeks for the replacement cradle to be shipped and then never having to worry about it again.
Secondly, the software very easily allows you to control more than one device at a time via Activities, which I actually find very useful. When you set up and activity, it prompts you whether you want the volume buttons to control the volume on the receiver or the tv, for example. If you don't like the default button choices that the programmer makes, you can go back in and manually choose which button you'd like to control which function from which device. 1-2 hours is a ridiculous exaggeration; I could probably do it from scratch in about 15-20 minutes. I currently have it set up to control cable + av receiver + tv and don't have to do any of multi-step control crap that you mention. I just push the "Watch TV" button, all the devices turn on, and all are controlled by the proper buttons on the remote. If you're having to go through the "devices" on the remote every time you want to control a different device, then you're using the remote in the wrong way; use activities to your benefit, rather than trying to fight it.
I will agree that the Slideshow feature is useless. I'll also agree that the random/alphabetical organization of the menus is annoying. Neither of those detract from the fact that it's a great remote, though.
I have a lower end Harmony (680 I think) and I agree with some of BSW's complaints, but my experience is closer to Wun Chiou's in terms of programming ease and use of activities. Controlling multiple devices at the same time with minimal button presses is easy and works well, except that there are only 6 soft-buttons and sometimes I need more.
My Harmony runs a home theatre receiver, TV, TiVo, DVD player and CD player. The activities ("Watch TV" etc) work very well most of time time. Some times a command goes astray and I need to fix it manually.
I agree with BSW's issues with the web interface limitations. Not being able to order actions the way I want is really annoying.
All in all I'm not in love with my Harmony (2 years on). I would like to try an alternative, but this Denon is way overpriced.