HD DVD to Blu-ray: "Oh yeah, well we've sold a lot of discs too!"

It just wouldn't be a proper format war without a rebuttal from the opposing side about this week's announcement that Blu-ray has sold over a million discs. The HD DVD PR machine scrambled to life to point out that they, too, are so close to that magic million, with their own sales numbers showing 998,000 units sold, up from the 937,500 reported by Home Media Research. The HD camp also points out that -- not including the PS3 or Xbox add-ons -- standalone next-gen DVD hardware is selling 4-to-1 in favor of HD DVD this month, and content sales numbers are very close week-to-week between the two formats. Meanwhile, the average consumer sits on the sidelines waiting for a winner to emerge from the fight -- that is, if they can even spell it.

[crycry @ Apr 26th 2007 12:52PM]

Well you can count me in the camp of people that bought the PS3 for Blu Ray. Why would I buy a standalone player? I assume the little survey I filled out when I registered my PS3 will reflect that. I'll use the video games system I'm sure but the first thing I did was rent a blu ray movie

PS I bought it at EB Games when I traded in my Gamecube and some games for $360 CDN, so even the cheapest HDDVD players couldn't compete (in Canada that is).

[Bonebag @ Apr 26th 2007 1:37PM]

@CryCyy

Hey buddy, keep using your PS3 for both, and see how fast the drive burns out. You will be lucky to get 1 year out of the Blu-Ray drive on the PS3, if you use it for heavy gaming and heavy movie watching. It just puts too much stress on the drive.

Meanwhile, Microsoft was genius in making HD-DVD an add on. This means 1 drive for movies and 1 drive for games. This translates into the 360 drives lasting twice as long.

Anyway, Blu-Ray is just about over now that Walmart is backing HD-DVD. During the Christmas season this year, they will stop carrying Blu-Ray players (not counting the PS3) and Blu-Ray movies. They will only sell HD-DVD players and HD-DVD movies.
The HD-DVD player at Walmart will sell for less than $200. This means it will be at least $400 less than the closest Blu-Ray player (the PS3) at $600.

This, coupled with the fact that Walmart sell 40% of all the DVD players in the country signifies the end of Blu-Ray. It will only exist in the failing, dust collecting, PS3's.

[lol@PS3 @ Apr 26th 2007 3:54PM]

You won't buy a stand alone player? You basically did.

Or are you going to tell me you still play Resistance 6 months later? Or do you play the one and only release since launch, Motorstorm.

[Jiffylush @ Apr 26th 2007 12:59PM]

HD DVD has sold more players, as long as you don't count the number one blu-ray player?

I guess if I was depending on HD DVD for my livelyhood I would like to pretend the PS3 didn't exist either.


Think of it like this:

Hey, Microsoft sold the most MP3 players this week*

*MP3 players that aren't iPods.

[Revrant2394 @ Apr 26th 2007 1:49PM]

Oh yes, counting the PS3, there are far more Blu-Ray players out there, you'd think that's a positive thing, right?

Yet the actual HD-DVD format movies are selling nearly, by the skin of their teeth, as well as the Blu-Ray format movies.

Hm. :)

[KC @ Apr 26th 2007 1:19PM]

So... what's the number if they included the Xbox HD-DVD and the PS3? I have a feeling that more PS3 owners use their machine to watch BD, compared to Xbox owners who watch HD-DVD on their console.

[simon @ Apr 26th 2007 1:28PM]

Well considering First gen PS3s and stand alone Blueray players are not going to be able to play newly released titles soon thanks to the hardware and software changes Sony is implimenting into the Blueray DRM system... All PS3s and BLueray players should be scrubbed off the list and start relisting the new generation players that do suport the new DRM system sony is going to be using...

FEK i hate sony. Glad i didnt buy a Ps3

[Jackson @ Apr 26th 2007 2:44PM]

Hey Simon, I think you're referring to BDJava(I don't know of any hardware changes). The PS3 firmware can be updated, and I think most of the standalone players also have an ethernet jack for this purpose.

[SimbaDogg @ Apr 26th 2007 3:35PM]

so...firmware updates don't exist anymore?

[Kev50027 @ Apr 26th 2007 4:46PM]

Simon, Sony also hates you. You're wrong, so don't spew incorrect information, it's called stupid.

[andy @ Apr 26th 2007 1:30PM]

In the 'hardware sold category', all your answers lie with WalMart. You can just assume that whichever one they picked has already won in this category (even though they haven't even been manufactured yet).

As for disc sales, they're going to follow the hardware. Studios will sell on whichever format will make them money (with the exception of Sony). However, if HDDVD emerges, we'll see Sony change course too. Heck, they've already jetisoned the CEO of the computer entertainment division, looks like some changes may be in store.

[Jr. @ Apr 26th 2007 1:36PM]

Wal Mart has picked HD-DVD...game over, bluray...

[Afsheen @ Apr 26th 2007 1:32PM]

That image sums up this whole stupid BD vs. HDDVD fiasco. But BD will always be my favorite because it only has two syllables. And THAT reasoning sums up the pointlessness of this entire format war. I blame the respective companies for the time, space and energy wasted as people banter useless facts back and forth (facts which, if you look back, NEVER address any concrete differences between the
formats that justifies one "winning").

[andy @ Apr 26th 2007 1:32PM]

N/A because the PS3 can just be updated via firmware. However, with respect to the other stand alones, you're right. They can't update those because the spec change requiring network connectivity wasn't, scratch that, STILL isn't fully implemented in available BR players.

[Tom @ Apr 26th 2007 1:36PM]

breaking out PS3 is important because it tells you what is really going on. Just like how the BD disc sales over the last quarter have been somewhat misleadingly inflated due to free/discount certificates in launch PS3s, the certificates to redeem free copies of Casino Royale, and radical half off sales from retailers like Amazon. Im not talking about free pack-ins. If you did all this for HD-DVD you would see huge spikes for it as well.

PS3 is a games console and not purchased primarily as a BD player by the mainstream. The same mainstream that right now doesnt really care about EITHER format because you look at total standalone player sales of both formats together and it is miniscule.

The entertainment biz really only considers the PS3 userbase to be 15-20% real repeat movie customers, the rest gamers.

Mainstream penetration will not be achieved by selling discs to PS3 owners. It will be achieved by putting the gate piece, the hardware, in a massive number of households. As much as Sony and the fanboys hate this truth, it is still true. And people are fairly satisfied with DVD, not interested in general in BD or HD-DVD, and in absolutely no hurry to adopt an HD movie format. The sales figures bear this out - the standalone player sales are the piece to look at.

So, in the absence of the content, the quality, or anything NOT price related actually being able to drive sales volume, we see that the last thing left that is making a difference right now is price, HD-DVD players primarily outsell BD players by a large margin for that one reason in Europe and North America.

Which is bad news for Sony. It means what people already knew when looking at the curve of DVD player adoption - huge jumps in mainstream volume come with price drops below a mainstream upper boundary price. In this case its usually considered sub-$300 as the first one, and sub-$200 and the much bigger jump. No one doubts HD-DVD will get there first especially with the help of generic Chinese players hitting the market this year. If HD-DVD can maintain a minimum $100 price differential on hardware it will do just fine as it hits sub-$300 and sub-$200. it only has to have a good enough content portfolio, not a gigantic content portfolio.

Because right now, that highly touted content portfolio is not driving standalone player sales for BD, they are still getting mauled by HD-DVD in that regard - that tells us that people are more concerned with the player price than they are with the content portfolio. Again, bad news for Sony.

Fanboy says, "BUT BUT you tard, you are clearly ignoring the PS3! Market dominance will come from having all those PS3s out there with a BD drive in them!"

Actully no. In case no one noticed, PS3 sales have dropped into the toilet in all geographies if you look beyond Sony press releases. High launch volume and steep dropoffs. Why? After fanboys are exhausted, the high price makes the PS3 a lousy mainstream value proposition. Newer releases will not help this - most people are not going to pay $599 for a console (now that the 20gb version is EOL'ed). And that "most people" segment is the hugest part of the market, the one that determines mainstream success.

People are sensitive to price - that is why PS3 sales are dropping badly around the world, why BD players dont sell well, and why BD has not actually won anything yet except the battle to move discounted/free discs to existing PS3 owners.

The battle is far from over. As PS3 launch surges and their after effects subside, expect an inflection in this race by the end of the year and early next year.

[Jackson @ Apr 26th 2007 2:46PM]

Free BD's not counted in totals. This should be obvious. If Sony counted the 400k they gave away in the US and the 500k they gave away in the UK, they'd be a 2 million.

[Tom @ Apr 26th 2007 3:20PM]

"Free BD's not counted in totals. This should be obvious. If "

It is obvious, but you dont know what you're talking about. The free pack-ins are not included. However BDs obtained from retailers via a coupon / certificate, ARE included since it counts as a retail "sale" coming out of retail inventory.

[Brian @ Apr 26th 2007 2:32PM]

Actually that story turned out to be a translation error and may have actually meant Blu-Ray. And even if Wal-Mart did want to sell a cheap HD-DVD player, that doesn't mean they also won't sell a cheap Blu-Ray player.

At the $200 - $300 price point and crappy knock off brands I don't think Wal-Mart will decide squat. People that are willing to spend that much money on a movie player don't want generic brands and don't do all their electronics shopping at Wal-Mart.

[crycry @ Apr 26th 2007 1:51PM]

@ bonebag

huh? That's based on what sort of actual/factual evidence? Are you the kinda guy who doesn't use his blinkers because they'll wear out? I'm pretty sure watching 3 movies a week won't kill the drive, and I'm betting I could replace it in several years if it does. By then what will new players cost anyway?

@ simon. Well that's news to me. Any proof of that?

[jakep_82 @ Apr 26th 2007 2:37PM]

@Bonebag

"Hey buddy, keep using your PS3 for both, and see how fast the drive burns out. You will be lucky to get 1 year out of the Blu-Ray drive on the PS3, if you use it for heavy gaming and heavy movie watching. It just puts too much stress on the drive."

It always amuses me when people make stuff up to support their own point of view. Can I ask where this came from? Do you really think Sony would sell a $600 console knowing that the drive would burn out in a year? That would be committing corporate suicide. They would lose every one of their most loyal customers, the early adopters.

[Ayle @ Apr 26th 2007 2:10PM]

"Anyway, Blu-Ray is just about over now that Walmart is backing HD-DVD. During the Christmas season this year, they will stop carrying Blu-Ray players (not counting the PS3) and Blu-Ray movies" Did you know that the world doesnt revolve around the US and there is no walmart out of the US?

[crycry @ Apr 26th 2007 2:11PM]

actually, I only have had a gamecube before this so one of the 20 games available will keep me busy. I'm sure I'm exactly like lots of people who kinda like video games, don't have an xbox 360 and wanted to watch HD Movies. I played Elder Scrolls (which I've never heard of, to give you an idea of how much I care about video games) for a week and I can tell it would keep me intermittently entertained for a long time. I also bought it assuming that since the PS3 outsold the 360 in huge amounts in Japan all the fun weird Japanese games will come out eventually and then I won't have to play lame FPS and RPGs which I don't really enjoy. It all came down to "why not" when faced with the option of a PS3. Especially when I know Sony has the exclusive studios.

[Sean D. @ Apr 26th 2007 2:09PM]

Are there more Blu-Ray players out there? $700 for a PS3, and $350 for a standalone HD-DVD player. The difference in cost is the price of a Wii bundle!

Costco, Sams Club, and Wal*Mart also seem to have fairly substantial selection of HD-DVD titles, and not many Blu-Ray discs (if any).

I'm considering picking up an HDTV this year, but I'll probably stick with upscaling my DVDs for another year or two, and I'll happily play my Wii, Gamecube, and PSTwo at 480p.

I guess the real decider for me is the format that Star Trek: Remastered is going to show up on. Since Paramount is currently backing Blu-Ray (as is just about everyone else), that'll probably be the one to get.

[Chris @ Apr 26th 2007 4:44PM]

"I guess the real decider for me is the format that Star Trek: Remastered is going to show up on. Since Paramount is currently backing Blu-Ray (as is just about everyone else), that'll probably be the one to get."

Paramount is backing both, you big silly.

[Afsheen @ Apr 26th 2007 2:13PM]

@ crycry

I suspect simon is talking about the java that Sony is going to be using in their menus. Any compatibility issues can be dealt with a firmware update, there are no hardware issues. That thing about DRM, I have no idea what he's talking about. He might be confusing the new DRM (ARccOS) Sony is encoding to their DVDs which is causing some people problems. Firmware updates can solve both of those problems. Obviously simon is more interested in dissing Sony and BD than getting his facts straight.

[andy @ Apr 26th 2007 2:38PM]

Firmware updates suck on CE devices. They should just work out of the box.

On the PS3, it's not a big deal. Most are connected to the net anyway, and sony can just push out the update.


What about the pioneer/samsung/lg players that don't have network ports because Sony just changed the BR spec. I don't have patience for that crap.

[Stephan @ Apr 26th 2007 2:17PM]

Were did you guys read the walmart confirmed it was HD DVD last I read it was a translation error, and all we know it is a next gen player with a blue laser (hint both HD DVD and Blu ray use blue lasers)

[Pabblo @ Apr 26th 2007 5:55PM]

HD-DVD is embracing the porn industry for HD content distribution. Bluray is dead set against pressing porn on their DVD's. Game over right there, bluray. Porn helped decide the VHS - Betamax wars. To press a Bluray movie, you need the special press/burners that are expensive. Not so for HD-DVD. So a porn press shop can easily pump them out. Bluray won't make it much longer.

[Brian @ Apr 27th 2007 9:30AM]

@Pabblo,

Actually you're completely wrong. But that's okay because facts are not welcome here. Yay!

Sony has said that THEY will not personally produce porn on Blu-Ray, but the Blu-Ray Disc Association has stated several times that they're not preventing anyone from putting porn on Blu-Ray.

And personally I don't think porn decides this generation. It's not 1985, the back of your shady local movie rental is not the best place to get porn anymore. For most people, I'd think the anonymity and ease of access to it online would far outweigh any benefits of higher quality picture.

[Jesse S @ Apr 26th 2007 2:27PM]

Honestly, either BD will win, or BD and HDDVD will merge into one format, which is what we're already seeing...Multi-format players, even discs!

BD is superior (more space, and I think a faster read time), but the majority of people, _do not_ care.

[louie @ Apr 26th 2007 2:34PM]

I really don’t get it. This argument should really go beyond the scope of home entertainment. The Blu Ray is a God-send to anyone who requires a ton of PC storage.

Blu Ray is a new technology which can fit 2-3 HD DVD's on them (and growing). It’s truly a revolutionary storage medium which goes beyond a format just for movies, but for computer storage as well. Every PC manufacturer should be ecstatic about Blu Ray and the portable storage possibilities unheard of just a year ago.

And Microsoft (x box) is pulling for HD DVD… for what? It seems that HD DVD will end up limiting the size of the game. What will happen when games require >30gigs? Game producers would enjoy designing with highly detailed graphics, large robust worlds, with insane realism, without the constraints of disk space.

HD DVD’s idea was to take a DVD disk and crunch the “grooves” to make a DVD disc handle the new 1080p (and succeeded). But Blu Ray is ready now be able to handle 1080p, AND the new big push for even higher definition. Blu Ray is new technology, it’s better technology. Please wait will get cheaper.

[fitinferno @ Apr 26th 2007 3:04PM]

Ayle, the no Walmarts outside of the US isn't exactly true. Here in Britain there is a store called ASDA and it is "part of the walmart family." (http://www.asda.com) And the UK isn't the only international place you'll find the company: http://www.walmartfacts.com/FactSheets/7262006_Corporate_Facts.pdf

[Klaus @ Apr 26th 2007 3:05PM]

Well overall I think blu-ray will win becasue at the computer side its leading by far (dell and apple). Sony were clever by adding blu-ray movie player and hdmi 1.3 to the ps3 and it have sold almost 3m now. Microsoft should have added HD-dvd player to the xbox 360 if they wanted to realy help HD-dvd even if it would cost more. Even if most buy the ps3 for gameing it will still help blu-ray to get more supporters and sell more movies.

But its hard to tell who is winning yet. ( still waiting )

[Danger @ Apr 26th 2007 3:13PM]

I'm holding out until one prevails, i'm not walking into another laserdisk fiasco, not going to buy a ton of highend dvd's just to have the be put on the back burner..
http://www.burnedbytheman.com

[Peter @ Apr 27th 2007 10:21AM]

Blu Ray is the safer bet. It is already better entrenched in the PC hardware side, many burners are available. It offers much more storage and that is a win for PC storage.

The killer on the Movie side is they have the most movie studious. Did you hear what what Movie Theater buisness is counting on for blockbuster to save them this year. Spiderman 3, and Pirates 3... guess what. Both these series are Blu Ray only. As are many other blockbusters these days.

If Lucas would release Star Wars that would be Blu Ray only as well.

I don't have an HD TV, but once I get one, I will get a Blu Ray drive one way or another. Mainly because that is where the movies I want are and where the future blockbusters are likely to be.

[Bonebag @ Apr 27th 2007 12:36PM]

Peter,

It seems like you won't be getting a Blu-Ray player at all, since you don't seem to be running right out and getting one.

You seem to be waiting for prices to drop (like most of us). When this happens, HD-DVD will be the winner and ALL studios will back it. Blu-Ray will be history.

Also, some clown on the first page was talking about Blu-Ray being some revolutionary technology for PC storage. That is LAUGHABLE.

HVD (Holographic Versatile Disc ) is the REVOLUTIONARY TECHNOLOGY. Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are a joke compared to it. An HVD disc (which is about the size of a DVD) will be able to hold 1 TB or more!! I thought everyone new about HVD as it has been in the works for years.

Honestly, read up:

http://news.com.com/Group+aims+to+drastically+up+disc+storage/2100-1041_3-5562599.html

[lol@PS3's @ Apr 26th 2007 4:03PM]

Ayle-

Do we know there is more than just the US??? Yes we do, and so does Toshiba

http://www.abcmoney.co.uk/news/25200761977.htm

TOKYO (XFN-ASIA) - Toshiba Corp aims to sell around 3 mln players compatible with the HD DVD next-generation optical disc format in the current year to March 2008, up sharply from the 250,000 units it sold last fiscal year, the Nikkei financial daily reported, without citing sources.

The global market for next-generation DVD players is seen at 4-5 mln units in fiscal 2007, with Toshiba seeking a 60-70 pct share, the Nikkei said.

To better compete with companies promoting the rival Blu-ray Disc format, Toshiba plans to continue with its strategy of cutting prices and releasing low-priced players in the US, the largest market, according to the newspaper.

The company slashed prices of both entry-level and midrange players by 100 usd there this month, bringing price tags to 399 usd and 499 usd, respectively.

[lol@PS3\\\'s @ Apr 26th 2007 4:06PM]

Those are just TOSHIBA players, it's not counting the Wal-Mart players.

[Phoenixxx1974 @ Apr 26th 2007 6:30PM]

here you go a amazon listing for the star trek movie collection on HD-DVD NO listing for blu-ray.


here you go :-)

http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Star-Trek-Movie-Collection/dp/B000E1MTVS

[myscrnnm @ Apr 26th 2007 5:41PM]

It's a bit unfair to completely leave PlayStation 3 sales out of the stats for Blu-ray Disc players sold. The way it is, the PlayStation 3 doesn't play BD (and BD alone) any worse than current standalone players; plus, it's the first commercial implementation of HDMI 1.3. Given that and its relatively low price, I'm certain many people bought it solely for the purpose of watching Blu-ray Discs.

How this differs from the HD DVD drive for the Xbox 360 is that when you buy both the Xbox 360 and the HD DVD drive add-on, that comes to a total of 598 USD. At that price, it would be more convenient to buy a standalone HD DVD player, since being an add-on, the HD DVD drive takes up a lot more space, add that to the Xbox 360's AC adapter, and that's a lot of property.

This is why the PlayStation 3 should be included in the sales to some extent.

[Phoenixxx1974 @ Apr 26th 2007 6:49PM]

if what you are saying is true and there is 3M blu-ray players which include stand-alone players, PC drives, and ps3s (which i doubt it's 3M seeing how the PS3 barely hit 2 million with the launch of the ps3 in europe because it's not doing good in japan with a combined total of less then 800K. also seeing how the HD-DVD players are destroying the blu-ray players also mentioned in the article, so i doubt there are that many PC drives sold) but seeing for argument sake let's say you are right and it is 3M drives all combined that makes the article about blu-ray hitting 1 million disc's sold this month sound worse. That means there is one movie for every 3 players which is a really bad ration that companies actually look at. Bigger library doesn't mean anything it's quality titles that do sell like the HD-DVD has a ration of like 4-5 for every unit. Let's say there are 250,000 HD-DVD drives (the players, 360 drives, and new PC drives) and they are close to a million movies sold which means that means there is like 4 movies for every drive which is much better ration then blu-ray and seeing how it's this close to a million with much fewer drives then blu-ray it sells a good amount of movies when blu-ray should be selling TONS more. Especially since HD-DVD didn't have any significant movies for the first 3 motnhs of this year and still held it's ground and there are alot of movies coming out like Heroes, Battlestar galactica, Matrix (including the animatrix which will look awesome in HD), lord of the rings this summer, and if amazon is telling the truth Star trek movie collection (look it up), along with tons of other good movies.

[Rick Lyon @ Apr 26th 2007 7:25PM]

You can look at the PS3 in two ways.

1) That it's a BRD player and not a video game console which can be reflected by the cost per unit and drop in 20gb model. This makes Sony's own player, the Sammy, Pioneer, Panny and ALL other companies wonder why come out with a BRD player unless we can compete with the $600 PS3? Bad news for BRD hardware.


2) The PS3 is a cheap-ish BRD player, not a vide game console, well, Sony will lose to the Wii and Xbox.