PS3 to get upscaled DVDs, 1080p/24

Ok, so the PlayStation 3 wasn't exactly the most flexible high def device out of the gate; despite Sony's claims, DVDs aren't upscaled, there's no component out, and from what we've heard, even though its HDMI 1.3 output technically supports 1080p/24 (for the uninitiated, that's 24fps to match a film master print), we understand it's not yet playable as such. (Note: we've yet to try 1080p/24, as we don't have any media mastered thusly.) However, this could change according to a translated Impress interview of Sony PS3 A/V developers. Obviously something is bound to be lost in translation, but if the text reads correctly then the PS3 will not only be getting better software SACD support, but it'll also get user-selectable internal YCrCb image processing (instead of RGB -- although we've yet to hear of component output plans), 1080p/24 support, and will finally allow for DVD upscaling as well. We have no idea exactly when this will happen (or why this wasn't made clearer to us US-dwelling videophiles) but apparently Kutaragi-san and the gang are on the case -- godspeed, PS3 team.

[Thanks, David]

Update: we printed the PS3 would be getting SACD support. Supposedly it's already got that, but future version will have better sound and dynamic range. So there!

Read - Impress (new audio support)
Read - Impress (new video support)
Read - Beyond3D translation

[DJBro @ Nov 30th 2006 4:43PM]

So wait, the component output cables from my PS2 wont work on a PS3?

[cle @ Nov 30th 2006 5:21PM]

FYI, PS2 component cables do work on the PS3. I am using mine now and it works fine.

[Nash @ Nov 30th 2006 5:28PM]

What does he mean by "no component output"? I'm using my PS2 component cables just fine with my PS3. Maybe he means no 1080p over component...I don't think that's possible on any machine, but I could be mistaken. And before anybody mentions the 360, that's just upscaling to 1080p so it's not the same.

[CharlieX @ Nov 30th 2006 4:50PM]

Seems to me this is more what a Cell processor is designed for than games.

[ariza @ Nov 30th 2006 6:17PM]

I dont see Sony ever allowing upscaling of DVDs on the PS3 simply because it would cut into their BlueRay market.

If you want HighDef movies they will argue that you will need to purchase a BlueRay disc.

[MPG @ Dec 1st 2006 7:25AM]

"I dont see Sony ever allowing upscaling of DVDs on the PS3 simply because it would cut into their BlueRay market.

If you want HighDef movies they will argue that you will need to purchase a BlueRay disc."

Ok, I really have to wrap my head around this comment. Do you REALLY think that "upscaling" a DVD will make it a HD movie? Do you REALLY think that some details will magically appear in the upscaled picture that were not there in the "original" picture? If upscaling would cut into the BluRay market, then why do they need BluRay discs in the first place?

But on the other hand, the fact that this Engadget article even exists, shows, that apparently a lot of people think that "upscaling" gives them some kind of benefit. It reminds me of all these silly movies where you have some grainy pictures, then someone says "Enhance details!" and suddenly you can see stuff that wasn't visible before. Is Engadget really on the scientific level of Jurassic Park ("It's a Unix system!") or other pseudo-science Hollywood flicks?

Upscaling is NOT going to improve image quality. Not at all. In fact, viewing a movie that was mastered in a certain resolution in a different resolution is always going to _cost_ you a certain amount of quality. An NTSC movie looks best on an NTSC TV and a PAL movie looks best on a PAL TV. If you want HD quality, you'll have to buy HD-DVDs or BluRay DVDs. Upscaling is a placebo that - I am sure - many people will happily fall for.

[Jordan @ Nov 30th 2006 4:54PM]

Finally, some good news. Not having DVD's upscaled was very disappointing. Glad to hear they're on it.

[jc @ Nov 30th 2006 5:12PM]

News of more promises from Sony, eh?


Anyone else want some salt with that?

[Njoli @ Nov 30th 2006 5:20PM]

do my eyes decieve me good news about the PlayStation 3, finaly i want to want this system but i'm not quite there yet. come on sony just given me a few more good stories and my $600 is as good as yours.

[akijikan @ Nov 30th 2006 5:25PM]

What is this talk of lack of YCrCb? I see it on my menu right now...wtf?

[GioNYC @ Dec 1st 2006 9:15AM]

For "cle"

Well thats good news. Now I dont have to shell out anther $60

[evilfixx @ Nov 30th 2006 6:35PM]

It doesn't matter when it's done, just that it is being worked on... So I think you should retract your last article about them snubbing 1080p. Microsoft is just getting their 1080p fixes out, I don't see any jabs there. Then again, when Sony does come out with a fix, you'll find flaw with it...

No system is ever perfect "Right out of the gate." for people to expect anything more from any company, whether it be Sony, MS, or the mighty Nintendo, who according to you all can do no wrong, is plain stupid on their part.

[Galley @ Nov 30th 2006 5:45PM]

I'm assuming that SACD audio is sent via HDMI. I'm sure Sony's not gonna make a 5.1 analog cable.

[nVidiot @ Nov 30th 2006 5:52PM]

Nash: Component is capable of carrying a 1080p signal, but you won't find any displays (well not many) that support 1080p over component... what does the 360 have to do with this at all? It has the same 1080p capabilities as the PS3... and it even does 1080i.. *shocked and awed*

[Mayor McCheese @ Nov 30th 2006 6:14PM]

I have also read that movies compared side by side on a PS3 and a 360, Blu-Ray to HD-Dvd that the Blu-Ray looks grainy and pixelated. Whereas the HD-Dvd is crystal clear.

I heard a rumour that Korean leader Kim Dae Jung has a couple of PS3 linked together because Saddam Hussein told him that you can track satellite's and objects coming right for ya!

[Jesus Morales @ Nov 30th 2006 6:51PM]

So how will the PS3 look on my Sony 9" black-n-white Tv from Wal~Mart?

[aiken @ Nov 30th 2006 6:21PM]

FYI, virtually all BD movies are mastered at 1080/24 (just like virtually all HDDVD movies). There would be little point in duplicating frames on-disc, after all, and movies are shot at 24FPS.

The better excuse for not testing 1080/24 is that you don't have a display that can handle it over HDMI, since few can. Fortunately that's changing.

[Chris @ Nov 30th 2006 6:26PM]

How can you guys claim to be videophiles but then lack any 1080p/24 mastered movies?

[Jerry @ Nov 30th 2006 6:44PM]

My TV does a splendid job of upscaling the image. Why exactly does the PS3 need to upscale the video for? It's not like the PS3 can magically create more detail than the DVD originally encodes.

As for SACD audio, perhaps the Toslink would be of use here?

[laskid @ Nov 30th 2006 7:53PM]

I wouldn't say shock and awe. More like now I'm really confused about what the whole component comment is about. And I guess 1080p over component isn't very useful if no 1080p tv (not many) will accept the signal. I had a little respect for MS when they were sticking to their guns about the High Def drive and the 1080p thing. They said it wasn't useful or necessary. Now they have both. I guess Sony and MS are both capable of BS (I had a monitor all ready to go for that second HDMI output!).

Oh and Jesus, the PS3 would look like ass on your 9" black-n-white. Just like Coleco Vision would.

[Craig @ Nov 30th 2006 8:32PM]

and the award for the inability to infer sarcasm goes to...

[Jay @ Nov 30th 2006 10:42PM]

I still haven't seen a PS3 in action. For some reason, where ever I go the store's PS3 is not operational. Dammit.

[icepop4who @ Nov 30th 2006 11:01PM]

about time sony allow upscaling DVDs because it's cheapest way to watch movie in "high-def" right now. Blu-ray discs cost at least $10 more per movie and little things like 1080p/24 and upscale is exactly what sony needs to boost momentum for the console, despite of the fact that it's sold out everywhere.

I really see the potential of the PS3, because it's just getting better and better. I say wait a year and the PS3 will dominate the market of next-gen games and media center.

[Grendel @ Nov 30th 2006 10:51PM]

Um....I could be wrong but I think all of you guys saying your running a PS3 with your old PS2 component cables are actually thinking of COMPOSITE cables. Component uses 3 seperate RGB jacks, not that yellow composite jack.

[Philip @ Nov 30th 2006 9:07PM]

^^ you craig for not noting even more sarcasm ;)

[Castle @ Nov 30th 2006 9:41PM]

>>So wait, the component output cables from my PS2 wont work on a PS3?

They work, I use them, the issue is that blu-ray in encoded in RGB rather then native YCbCr internally, YCbCr color space is superior for phosphor emission characteristics of many displays.

Basically, saying that Blu-ray should get a good boost in quality for many displays via the PS3 soon.

[Kevin @ Nov 30th 2006 10:07PM]

"My TV does a splendid job of upscaling the image. Why exactly does the PS3 need to upscale the video for? It's not like the PS3 can magically create more detail than the DVD originally encodes."

I'm curious as to which is better at upscaling DVD's - the TV or the consoles (360/PS3)?

[Tom @ Dec 1st 2006 12:00AM]

I've watched Blu-Ray movies @ 1080i (The limit of my TV) and I've played Need For Speed and Resistance at 720P over the component cables that I originally bought for my PS2. Meethinks the article only applies to 1080p over component as all of the other resolutions work.

Upscaling DVDs is a bit of a farce considering they are encoded at 480p to begin with. The best that can be accomplished is that the picture can be cleanly 'blurred' up to a higher resolution. Digital blurring is a little better than analog blurring, but excuse me while I roll my eyes. :)

[CaptCaveman @ Dec 1st 2006 12:57AM]

@ Grendel:

No they mean component. The PS3 has the same multi-AV out that the PS2 has. All the cables that worked on the PS2, including the component cables, will work on the PS3.
I had a HDMI cable laying around but if I didn't I would have used my old component cables.

[kayne001 @ Dec 1st 2006 3:20AM]

errrrhhh wrong

wow this news is great and inaccurate at the same time.

You can use component cables on PS3. Makes me wonder does anyone do research before they post?

I can see where they went wrong, they think that since PS3 has hdmi and avmulti out, they'll have male component connectors go in the PS3 and to the tv, that's the only thing I can think of.

[Ken @ Dec 1st 2006 11:43AM]

You are obviously wrong here. When you view a dvd on a HD TV the tv has to upscale the image to it's native resolution. What an upscaling dvd player does is apply an algorhythm to the upscaling to smooth and interpolate pixels. While you don't create new detail, it does a better job of upscaling than the TV. I have both an upscaling dvd player and a normal dvd player connected to my 72" toshiba and you can tell a world of difference between the 2.

Ken

[Anders @ Dec 1st 2006 9:46AM]

This reminds me of an old and very funny April fool�s day gag back in 1962. In a Swedish TV-show, a guy fooled the viewers that if they slipped a nylon sock over the TV, they would get color on their b/w TV-sets (and yes, they bought it�).

�Allow upscaling, and you�ll get HD quality on your TV.� Same shit, different generation�

[SquirrelPhister @ Dec 1st 2006 1:44PM]

"(Note: we've yet to try 1080p/24, as we don't have any media mastered thusly.)"

you don't have any movies on Blu-ray?

[SquirrelPhister @ Dec 1st 2006 2:44PM]

Jerry:
"It's not like the PS3 can magically create more detail than the DVD originally encodes."

really? my Xbox 360 does exactly that, and it looks amazing

[ferricide @ Dec 1st 2006 10:12PM]

oh, you can definitely do 1080p over component using PS3. i have.

[cwm9 @ Dec 2nd 2006 9:11PM]

1080p/24 is no better than 1080i72 for movies and may in fact be worse. Why? Because the film frames only change once every 1/30 of a second, so two successive interlaced 1080i/72 fields contains THE EXACT SAME INFORMATION as one 1080p/24 frame, just drawn in a different order. However, if your display actually shows exactly what it is given (1080p/24) you will have a headache at the end of the day due to excessive flicker. If your display device can capture the image and show it to you at 1080p/72 -- great! -- you're good to go. Otherwise, you'll probably end up watching in 1080p/60, have dropped frame, maybe see some blinking, and probably end up wishing you were watching in 1080i/72 so you'd get 72 refreshes per second, not see any blinking, and have a refresh rate an exact multiple of the native framerate.

[aiken @ Dec 2nd 2006 6:11AM]

Why is it that the misinformed people are the most vehement in their opinions?

Tom, MPG: you as mistaking upscaling a movie with upscaling a digital photograph. You are correct that when upscaling a picture, no new information can be added. However, movies are essentially a bunch of pictures in a row, and on SD DVD's, each frame has different information. Modern upscaling technology *can* add more (accurate) detail to any given frame by using info from the frames before and after to recover detail that was lost due to the capture resolution. Imagine that you had three separate photographs of the same scene, taken quickly in a row. Each one might have some element of detail that the others lack. By combining the most detailed pieces of each one, you can get more detail than any single picture has. Same goes for movies, though of course the digital tech has to compensate for motion, etc. But the principle holds, and that's why upscaling DVD players can look a lot better than standard DVD players.

cwm9: 1080p/24 refers to a transport, not a display frequency. Worse, when you go to a theater, that is 24 FPS; does it give you headaches? Even worse: LCD / DLP / Plasma do not have refreshes, and therefore don't flicker, so there is no difference at all between 1080p/24 and 1080p/72 for 24 FPS source material (which 99.9% of movies are). Got that? There will be no physical difference in the display of 24FPS material at 72FPS on any non-refreshing display tech (that is, everything except CRT).

1080p/60 *is* what people mean by 1080p, and it is an interpolated version of the original 24FPS source using 3:2 to duplicate some frames to turn 24FPS (as encoded on the BluRay disc) into 60FPS, which is why everyone is so excited to move to 1080p/24 (the transport will no longer muck about with duplicating frames). No movies are 30FPS (except made-for-TV movies). At this point I am starting to doubt that you can get your name right. Please get educated on this stuff before spouting off!

[cwm9 @ Dec 2nd 2006 9:23PM]

"1080p/24 refers to a transport, not a display frequency." Not true, the data is recorded as a 24 frames at 1080p. It is up to the player to play back the data at the refresh rate desired. It turns out that this player can output 1080p/72 (nice!) but not all CRT tv's can display this.

"Worse, when you go to a theater, that is 24 FPS; does it give you headaches?" The theater uses a bladed system which shows each frame 3 times, so the image is displayed 72 times per second. Do a Google search for 'theater blade 72 "24 frames"'

"Even worse: LCD / DLP / Plasma do not have refreshes, and therefore don't flicker, so there is no difference at all between 1080p/24 and 1080p/72 for 24 FPS source material (which 99.9% of movies are)." True, but not everyone owns these systems. Many people own HD CRTs. So forgive me for mentioning this point.

"1080p/60 *is* what people mean by 1080p, and it is an interpolated version of the original 24FPS source using 3:2 to duplicate some frames to turn 24FPS (as encoded on the BluRay disc) into 60FPS, which is why everyone is so excited to move to 1080p/24 (the transport will no longer muck about with duplicating frames)." That's right. Most CRT TVs are going to run at 1080p/60 because that's what the original spec was, and you're right, it's going to muck about with the signal. Only if your CRT can do 1080p/72 will you get a non-mucked with signal at 1080p, because 24/48FPS is going to make your miserable otherwise.

"No movies are 30FPS (except made-for-TV movies)." Duh.

"At this point I am starting to doubt that you can get your name right. Please get educated on this stuff before spouting off!" Take your own advice. I suggest getting your education at avsforum.com

[Yama @ Jan 4th 2007 1:20PM]

How would Sony provide/add the new DVD upscaling feature to the existing PS3s, is it a fact that this can be done through a software patch, or will it require hardware as well, meaning you need to buy a new PS3?